What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I'm a relatively new owner of a 9mm pistol. My first, but now I'm curious what y'all think is the ideal calibre for a pistol?

My step brother swears by the .50 cal, cuz he laughs and states, you only need to be in the same state with a perp and he's hurting, but he also says that ammo is more expensive etc....A friend who's a retired Sheriff swears by .40 cal....insisting that the 9mm just doesn't have all the stopping power required in all situations.

So with all things considered, with all the different pro's and con's I'm trying to figure what would be the ideal calibre? I'd appreciate your vote and if you would reasons to support that vote.

Thanks in Advance,
RK

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

The best pistol caliber is the one you have in your hand and are proficient with. If 9mm is what you have, get good with it and buy good defensive ammo for it.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I like the 9mm myself, usually has very high capacity mags, cheap and easy to get (common military caliber) ammo.147 gr JHP are really nasty for defense work. OTOH, a .45 will put down even the most wacked out attacker. but its heavy and large IMHO and far less ammo capacity. the 9mm has much success in both world wars with UK and German troops (Soviets to a smaller level) for home defense, nothing smaller than a 9mm Parabellum(luger) round but lean to the .45, for SHTF id go with the 9mm or .45 ONLY for ammo availability. the .40s and .38(includes .357) wouldnt be in any govt. stores the .50, .454 casull etc. are status guns and offer no other advantages except bigger holes and even larger ammo costs.your sheriff pal is partially correct, a 9mm is weaker than a .40 (10mm) but again a .45 has more stopping power than a .40

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

'Nuff said.
Attachment 59203

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

For some reason I can't make up my mind, I'm in between .38, 357, and a .45.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

The best handgun caliber is training. The more training you have the deadlier you will be regardless of caliber. Personally I carry a springfield xd in 9mm right now.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

357 revolver chambering is the most flexible pistol cartridge ever developed. 38 special lights can take small game.....357 heavy can kill a bear.

That should be your #2 or #3 gun.

#1 is your carry/home protection gun.

#2 is either the 357 or a 22 lr ...22lr so you can shoot a lot on the cheap to become a very good pistol shot.

#3....see #2.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

All depends what are you hunting... A 50 caliber is not needed at all. A hottly loaded 44 mag will take anything a 50 will.
When I go out I mostly carry a Smith & Wesson 640, loaded with .38 Speer GDJHP +P.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I like my hk.45 now, 18 years ago it was all about the 10mm. Mullets and tens, we were cool.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

20mm
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Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I said other ... this poll is like asking what is the ideal golf club. Or asking what is the ideal dinner.

I've had a Browning BuckMark .22 and a Ruger Super BlackHawk .44 magnum and both were ideal calibers for the task de jour.

Now I carry .38 special +P Buffalo Bore 158gr gas check hollow points @ 1,000fps or a 9mm Makarov with 12 alternating Bernaul HP and Wolf FMJs. They seem about ideal for "personal protection" to me right now in my situation. I keep an ideal .45/410 by my bedside.

So just put me down for "whatever" and thanks anyway! :bear_thumb:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Like that movie Quiggly charactor I don't have much use for pistols; I like to keep the bad guys at a distance too. Besides am I the only one around that is 90% more accurrate with a long gun? Even with my old eyes I can get a tenth the size group with a rifle that I can with a carried hand gun.

That is one of the reasons I have and prefer a 22 "kit" gun. My 9 shot old "cheap" H&R is damn near unbreakable all steel. Will shoot a sub 4" 25 yard 9 round group from a rest. It and a 109 rounds of ammo, a backup folding knife, and my "camera bag" holster weighs 45 ounces.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Like others have stated, the ideal handgun caliber depends on what you want it to do. Since you've already got a 9mm, just stick with that for ccw or home defense. If you want to do something else, like hunt go with a big bore revolver. But, you'd be much better served with a long gun for hunting and then in a caliber intended to humanly kill your prey.

Learn to shoot that 9 like it is an extension of you arm, because that is what it is and once you've mastered your strong side switch over to the other hand and do it all over again. By that time you might have the handgun worn out and then you can buy something else if you still think you're under gunned.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

If I could only have one gun it would be a S&W .357 magnum. I could carry it for protection. I could use it to hunt with. I can put .38 special ammo in it for a cheaper day at the range. and because it is a revolver it would be very reliable. S&W makes an 8 shot .357 mag.

But since I can have more than one gun, I do. Short, long, big and small.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

For social occasions, defensive use AND competition the .45 ACP is my only choice.
I have many handguns, but I always have a .45 close at hand.
Run what you have, shoot it often, and have plenty of magazines.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

[/IMG]Assuming your in a high stress sitation, and your only on target 50 % of the time. with the 9mm you can stll put 5-7 rounds in the perp. Also you can use that cheap ammo in one of these as well!

http://http://C:\Documents and Setti...es\gun\uzi.jpg

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

.......................

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

On another board, the 9mm and 45 argument was raging. I mentioned the only gunfight I ever saw was a bad guy fire one 45 round and take down two Houston cops. I love shooting my 9mm, but if I ever have to fight for my life, I prefer my 45.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

tough one..

They are all lethal. Put any one of them in a skull and odds have it the bullet wins. There is the conventional wisdom out there that -rightly so- advocates that the name of the game is all about shot placement. That really is the heart of the matter. It is however directly correlated to practice and that equates to burning rounds, which branches off into 2 parts: affordability and availability.

The most common, 9mm and .45 in autos and .357 & .38 in Revolver.

Personally, I have chosen .40 for combat and .45 as defense/carry/backup.

For me I see the .45 as a more effective round w/ .40 not far behind.
.45= more punch and adequate control
.40=multiple rounds on target w/ plenty of punch and excellent control.

SHTF and .40 will probably be hard to find... So I stocked up.

One more thing to consider. The same round will have different felt recoil in different firearms.

Example: I shoot a Ruger P94 in .40. Compared to shooting a G22 (also in .40) The P94 is MUCH softer shooting. Rugers have heavy slides - Glocks do not.

Fired side by side G22, G30 (.45) and P94, the G22 compares more closely to the G30 in felt recoil.

IMO the best mix of calibers for SA's to have on hand in any case is 9mm, .40 and .45. I'd feel like all teh bases were covered then.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

you have to put the 5.7x28mm round in there, it's the best handgun round!

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Since all handgun rounds are about equally effective, my choice is based on availability. My rule is simple: If it is in Wal-Mart, it is a good choice.

That being said I have handguns in .22 LR, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9x19, and .45 ACP. Those all meet my requirements. I usually tote a .45, but I have been known to tote the others.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

.45 ACP all the way

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

9mm - best combination of availability, mag capacity, impact, and economy. It is the best value.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

got a springfield XD 9 too, 15 round clip. I'd heard 9mm was the most widely available in the world, which is good for acquiring ammo as well as if ammo became a de facto barter currency. 9mm: the Krugerand of calibres! :rofl:

Some macho-gun loving friend told me that the 9mm was developed by (country?)'s military because their female soldiers could better handle it?

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I believe it was introduced in 1902 by the German weapons manufacturer Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM) for their Luger pistol.....

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I have no idea what the ideal caliber for a pistol is...probably one that works the first time, all of the time--which hasn't been invented yet. Practically speaking, I guess it would be whichever one gets the job done for you quickly and effectively.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

45 ACP

I like the boom.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

.38 Special is the best.

At least, for me it is.

You see, I have rather small hands. The big 45 ACP autos, I can't get my hands around to make a proper grip. Same thing with the larger revolvers. Just not enough finger length. So those are out, for me.

And then, I've also had operations on my hands. While my grip strength is improving, shooting something like a .357 Magnum just is not a good idea. And even the 9mm isn't the best choice, since I find it hard not to limp wrist an automatic, resulting in feed problems at times.

So, for me the best is a .38 Special, in a J-frame revolver. I can fire it and hit what I'm aiming at, without losing control of the gun. 5 hits with a .38 are better than a thousand misses with a .45 or 9mm.

Why did I relate all that? To make the point that what someone else can shoot with shouldn't matter a damn to you. Find a gun that YOU can shoot accurately and repeatedly with, in the largest caliber that YOU can use to hit what you're aiming at. PERIOD. Nothing else matters.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

This post sounds retarded .....is it just me ?

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

44 MAG is a force to be reckoned with, but have you ever looked at the difference in speed and energy produced by the 500 S&W?

I think if you compared the two, you would realize your statement can't possibly be accurate. A 44 MAG has only about 1/3 the energy of the 500 S&W. Therefore, a line must be drawn somewhere. Having said that and to you credit most animals can be killed with a .22lr if enough skill is employed when the shot is taken. Do I think most animals can be killed with a 44 MAG? Absolutely, but obviosluy the more energy and power you have available, the less precise you have to be when "killing". A head shot on a brown bear with a 44 MAG is going to get the job done, but a head shot on a brown bear with a 500 S&W is going to turn a bear skull into a canoe. Really... the 500 S&W is going to cause MASSIVE MASSIVE damage wherever it hits. Point being if I had five/ six rounds to save my life during a bear attack the 500 S&W is going deliver disabling damage with every shot and is going to be my choice.

In fact for brown bear I would want nothing less than the new S&W 460. At least then you can shoot the 460, the 454 Casull & the 45LC.

I have a Ruger Redhawk in 44 MAG. I do not feel at this time that I "need" a S&W 500; however, I have shot the 500. There really isn't a justifiable comparison in the way the weapon feels when fired.

Basically my point is that saying a 44 MAG can do whatever the S&W 500 can do is like comparing .380 Auto and .357 MAG. Saying one round can kill anything another round can kill is meaningless because without skill you can't kill anything with any round. If you wan't to talk capability, well then physics is not on your side.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I don't live in Alaska, although I am considering a move to British Columbia.
A 44 magnum is more than enough for most people. In fact it's probably too much for most people. A 44 mag will kill a black bear just fine.
Until I end up moving north and start to feel undergunned I will be sticking with my 44 mags. Moving to 50 would be a big expense, including setting up for reloading, brass, etc..

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Tums, getting set up to reload for the .44 mag is not that expensive, you should do it if you shoot more than a box of ammo in a year. I mean it, you'd soon find yourself shooting more and improving your skill while enjoying a new hobby. Unless you're living arrangement is confined, like living in a van or something, it doesn't take up that much room. You know that expensive hunting ammo you buy for $$.$$? You can reload it for about 1/4 of the cost you pay someone else to manufacture it. You'll be able to refine it for you gun and make it more accurate.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

If your a short and stout fellow a .45 is good, if your body is more like 007 a 9mm would be desirable.:biggrin:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

oh I have reloaded for 44 mag. for a long time. It's buying a 50 caliber and all the reloading components to go with it that I would rather not have to do.
Unless I move far north I probably won't be buying a .50.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Tums, guess I misunderstood your other post. Thunbsup on the .44 mag.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Let me chime in and share my current philosophy on a brown bear revolver ... I worked in the Alaskan 'bush' along the rivers flowing into Lake Illiamna. It's only fly-in country and the time was 1997. I carried a .44 magnum I'd bought for deer/boar hunting, a Ruger Black Hawk 7.5" barrel, and I did handload but ...

I got to Alaska and they recommended a hard-alloy cast 338grain Keith Style semi-wadcutter @1300fps as the BEST back then. The bullet was crimped heavily, primers sealed with laquer, and the overall length was oversize by one cannelure length, about .2" longer than a factory round to hold extra powder. I could tell right away that these guys in Alaska were really pushing my .44 magnum and in case you don't know this is a HOT load. I was told the standard 240gr factory hollow points had been known to glance off the heavy skulls but not the bullets I bought (Ace Dube or Doobie brand, I seem to recall, no kidding)

Even with that said, I was instructed to aim for the bear's NOSE as he is charging me as I MUST HIT HIM ON THE SPINAL/BRAIN/HEAD area to drop him before he is on me --- just aim for the NOSE forget about everything else I was coached. I was told a point blank hit into the center of mass from even a .338 would not consistently drop him in time at such short range to avoid a mauling ... even a blown out heart was no guarantee ... "knock-down power is a myth" ... so ALWAYS aim for the NOSE ... and you are as well protected as you can be.

And expect ONE SHOT before he is on you. My single-action only long barreled Ruger classic cowboy gun was way wrong ... this is a HUNTING gun, not defensive ... I was told that my last five shots will be fired into his ear as he is killing me. You'll want to squeeze fast.

With this said, If I went to Alaska and faced 600lb+ grizzley bears again I'd take a good old .44 magnum loaded with such penetrators as these and it would be maybe a Ruger Red Hawk (although the grip seems small to me) a double-action with a 4" barrel.

The bears I faced daily were 20-70 feet away. They could outrun a horse in a charge and rip me open in an instant... then they bite your head ... with head shots ONLY in mind, the greater power of a larger round is meaningless as my .44 would punch through a lot of bone. The fast repeat firepower from a reasonable size round, and lighter weight and packability of the .44 gun ... those 50's are heavy and they kick so hard ... why have a gun so hard to shoot and tote around if you only intend to use head shots and one kills as fast as another? I was often wading icy rivers, climbing on all fours, and a 2.5lb gun was enough to tote ALL DAY.

I think people fall in love with cartridges and they forget about the actual TASK and ballistic realities. Like many here have said, given sufficient penetration, shot placement is just about all you need to worry about. For Brownie defense IMHO the .44 loaded this way is fine and a 4" barrel double-action is accurate enough and quick out of the holster and good to the last drop.

But this is a thread about the IDEAL HANDGUN CARTRIDGE? No stipulation of for what and where and how and what bullet design ... so I ramble, sorry.

FINAL THOUGHT ... many of these cartridges are designed for MARKETING. Some people NEED to market "new and improved" guns you know... Ever wonder why cartridge designers always label with a brand? Like .44 Remington magnum, or .308 Winchester, or .40 S&W? Every gun of every brand will have to carry that name etched onto the barrel like a brand... my ultimate major was MARKETING and its hard to BS a professional BSer like me. New cartridges keep new gun sales alive.

JMHO ... thanks!

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I like the .32 ACP or 7.62x25.

The .32 ACP allows for high capacity mouse guns like the CZ-83. Easy to carry, enough power, and if it's there's not enough power, you have plenty of it.

7.62x25 is just plain fun. .357 sig is comparable I guess but the cost of ammo makes 7.62x25 my choice.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Sharing a bit of Alaskan-guide style of dark humor:

Question:

How many shots from a .22LR pistol does it take to terminate and avoid a grizzly bear's charge?

Answer:

Just ONE. Shoot your customer in the foot and run like hell. :cooler:

Pardon me -- as I'm not always such a good dude. http://ac4.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/20321188d9b9c4c6 :bear_w00t:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I can't knock your experience, and it sounds great but I have a couple questions.

How can you claim 44 MAG has been known to glance off of their thick skulls, then talk about how they recommended a super hot load 44 MAG that pushed the limits of your gun, then say greater power is meaningless. Sounds to me like you spend 4-5 paragraphs talking about how you were under gunned only to say you would be happy with a 44 MAG.

Why not have a bullet the weighs 500gr travels faster than anything you mentioned. If you can handle the recoil of a hotloaded 44 MAG then you can handle the 500 S&W.

I would either have a 500 S&W, or a 12 gauge with slugs.... no good head shot on a brown bear would fail nose or no nose.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Pistol shooting doesn't come naturally to me. I practice and have gotten better but the improvements are incremental. Moreover, if I ever had to actually participate in any sort of fumbling-middle-of-the-night-point-blank fire fight where I am half asleep and half terrorized I will want something easily controllable with a very large capacity so I can miss as fast as I can for as long as I can.

Hence, 9mm, 115gr JHP is my cup of tea.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I'm just going to have to go out on a limb here and say that the 500 S&W is so much more powerful than the 44MAG (as a round) that you can't really claim the extra power doesn't "mean anything".

I know a lot of people just think it is cool, but good god look at the amount of force behind the round compared to the 44MAG. That is why I stated that the 500 S&W is going to make a canoe out of a brown bear head. I could be wrong, but when you talk about a heavier, faster bullet, with 2/3 more energy behind it... you just cannot say it is meaningless.

That is literally like saying that a .380's "stopping power" as you call it means nothing compared to a .357's "stopping power". Your advice is aim for the nose.... I got news for you you can kill just about anything with a 22 if you shoot it in the right place.

My point is you don't have to shoot a brown bear in the nose with a 500 S&W. That round is not going to "glance off". It's going to go straight through, and it going to make a big f'n hole.

Say whatever you want about magnum hype, but the 500 S&W is one big bastard.

Now having said all that I don't have my own 500 S&W so I guess I'll have to take your good advice on the hot loaded 44 MAGs....

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Elmer Keith (R.I.P.) helped develop the Smith and Wesson .44 mag way back when. He hunted extensively with it and recommended shooting for the nose or mouth when facing the big bears...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Keith

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I respect you gentlemen greatly, and I hope you know I'm only sharing personal experiences, much of that anecdotal ... and I MEAN WELL. Thank you for your politeness. :coolbeer: This is a BIG topic.

Now allow me to try and justify and explain myself ... let's figure that to stop a raging grizzly on adrenaline we can likely hit him in the head if we aim for the nose ... you will miss the nose but often hit him in the head, whereas if you aim for the head you may miss. That is an old trick to aim for a spot... now he is charging and about any hit in the head and he's gone, atleast disabled. So anything BUT a head shot and you will hit a glancing blow on the shoulder or backbone or ribs or chest. These are not likely to stop him appreciably any faster than the .44 load as mentioned and may be counted as a 'miss'. I used to look at the bears nose occasionally and program myself to snap the shot just as fast as I could get a reasonable fix on a running bear's nose area. It's a sort of mental 'focus' I guess. If you aim at just "bear" you may be screwed... sorry to say it but ...

Here is a bullet penetration estimator that projects penetration into game in a RELATIVE way... all things being equal... which will penetrate deepest?

It generates a relative penetration index for any given bullet. It derives it's information based on the bullet's weight and frontal area of the nose. The index number generated does not represent inches of penetration, but rather provides a very precise tool for comparing the penetration potential of any two non-expanding bullets.
http://beartoothbullets.com/rescourc...m?v1=450&v2=.5

Using the calculator above, let's now compare these two rounds ...

Buffalo Bore Ammunition 44 Remington Magnum +P+ 340 Grain Lead Flat Nose Gas Check Box of 20
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dl...eitemid=513011 http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=513011
Relative Penetration Index of 26.39 with a 340 grain bullet and a .429" meplat diameter.

Grizzly Ammunition 500 S&W Magnum 370 Grain Cast Performance Lead Long Flat Nose Gas Check Box of 20
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dl...eitemid=517930 http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=517930
Relative Penetration Index of 21.14 with a 370 grain bullet and a .5" meplat diameter.

So the .44 as loaded can match or exceed a .500 magnum in penetration and bone breaking ability.

The size of the hole is a little bigger but not much on the .500 magnum. You see you do not want an expanding bullet on grizzly because he's so big and heavily muscled any expansion compromises the essential penetration factor.

A shot through lungs is meaningless ... a shot to the shoulder slows him down ... a shot to the heart and he lives until his blood pressure drop causes him to faint, about ten seconds at least because:

The term "Dead Man's Ten Seconds" appears in some early Western documentation (i.e. accounts of Texas Rangers, not Dime Novel idealism), depicting old gunfighters of the frontier era receiving fatal wounds yet still out-firing their opponents.

In most of these gun battle encounters, from the time of the fatal hit to the time the lack of blood flow carrying oxygen to the brain caused loss of consciousness/death, was approximately ten seconds. Headshots of course in most cases take out the subject at once as expected. This happened enough that the term "Dead Man's Ten Seconds" became part of the lingo and jargon of the Frontier.

Experienced fighting men of the period were aware of these "Ten Seconds". One account (a first hand account in the book A Texas Ranger by N.A. Jennings, circa 1870's) tells about two Texas Rangers that had a huge dislike for each other but, both handy with the gun, knew that the other "...would have his "Ten Seconds" to do what he needed to do. I have heard several men tell another man in the heat of a bitter dispute to take his best shot if he wanted but he 'Would have his ten' as well. I never witnessed it go past that point knowing full well they meant that they would follow thru."
http://www.borelliconsulting.com/eva...911pro3tac.htm

I submit that what is true of a determined man is true of a determined grizzly ... maybe the bear can fight longer than 10 seconds if he's angry as heck ... but it takes a head/neck/spinal shot to take him out now, QUICK. A slightly bigger hole is not going to mean much. And have little faith in the first shot, KEEP firing fast as you can to HIT THE HEAD to stop him now.

Hunting, you aim for the BODY and a bigger bullet will work a little better there on a surprised victim of "stand-back-and-pick-him-off" (like cold blooded assassination safely sniping from a distance) -- but I figure not much, virtually nothing when she/he's CHARGING.

Now for "knockdown power" ... testimony from 'terminal' ballistics experts from the Warren Commission ...

"...for years we used to document the direction in which an animal fell -- and the number was something like 2,000 animals and it ended up, as many fell away from the gun as fell toward the gun, and a goodly number fell straight down. There was absolutely no -- you can say possibly maybe a jet effect was pushing some of them toward the gun, or it could have been a muscular reaction."

Q. "Have you ever seen an instance in which an animal body, from the impact of the bullet itself, thrust violently in the direction away from the gunner?"

A. "Never."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/headwnd.htm

The energy from a .44 or a 500 magnum is not enough to move a grizzly at all. One just makes a bigger hole that might make a slightly larger wound cavity that will amount to very little unless you hit him in the head.

Many native americans carried open sight Winchester 30-30s and they felt pretty safe, they just planned to hit them in the head. The best guide gun is perhaps a short barreled rifle sighted 12 ga pump shooting 3" Breneke 1 3/8oz rifled slugs still you might better aim for the 'nose" if at all possible --- but it's too much to carry, specially wading a wild river... And if he jumps you and knocks you down as he likely will, you can't fire your gun at all. If you carry a pistol you are under-gunned anyway ... my philosophy is and was go for reliable penetration into the nervous system as your ONLY bet to stop him instantly before you get his last 10 seconds of rage...

My 2nd point is a .44 magnum is a caliber, just one caliber ... but it can be loaded from 300 ft/lbs energy to 1400 ft/lbs energy and its the same common caliber. Caliber means very little to me. And this caliber is all I need in grizzly bear country, I'll take the meat and skip the gravy. No need to punish myself and have faith in an even larger recoil and blast that may slow me down. I'll never want for more than a good .44 magnum pistol unless I want to wow my friends. That just my considered opinion -- and thanks for your respect. :coolbeer: :bear_thumb:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

we set up several man size sillhouette targets in backyard, the ladies practice headshots.
'nuff said.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

It all depends on what or who you are shooting at: as one person on another forum put it:
Does the man become the animal or does the animal become the man.
If a man is shot and realizies it he will go down, If a man is shot and gets mad then he becomes the animal and it will take more to stop him.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

my -9mm-people

my .357- Hogs, would not take mule deer or bear with .357

my 454 casull- for deer and other big game

my 44 mag- big game- but have never used it just my 454 only because the 454 is set up for hunting with scope

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I've shot several deer with 30.06 Rifle, 12 Slug, and 44 Mag Pistol.

I've had perfect 12 ga Remington Buckhammer Slug heart shots.....the heart had a hole you could shove your thumb through...and the deer still covered 30 yards. This is one of the largest Michigan deer I've seen in a long time...he was well over 230 lbs.

I've shot deer with perfect 44 Mag broad side double lung shots....50 - 100 yards.

30.06 is the only experience where I've seen near instant....drop in it's tracks body shots.

I'd like to kill a few more with 12 slug....as I'm sure I would see more drop right in their tracks.

The point I'm making is that a lot of folks think handgun body shots are like turning off a light.....I'm here to tell you that based on my deer experience a handgun will not do this...unless you hit the brain or central nervous system....even a 44 Mag or 357 Mag in the heart...the guy may have a little bit of time to return fire.

That said....I feel a 357/41/44 Mag are tough to beat. In a semiauto 45ACP+P or 10 MM are getting right up there into 357 Mag country. Anything else/smaller are just not in the same man stopper class.

Still, my bottom line......357 Revolver with 4 to 6 in barrel (I prefer 6") has to be the "Ideal" calibre....light 38 Spl for small game .....heavy 357 Mag could be used on bear.....I'd prefer 44 mag and up for large bear.....and you better make brain shots on bears. A heavy weight 357 has a bunch of penetration. I do not really think any pistol is adequate for big bear ....just saying in a pinch.....357 with heavy projectiles could get the job done about as well as other large pistols.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Sure, but that's a full-power .44 load (1533 ft-lbs.) vs. a relatively mild .500 load (1183 ft-lbs.). Full-power .500 Mag loads exceed 3000 ft-lbs.

The .500 probably has the widest range between low- and high-power loads -- around a factor of 10 (vs. 5 for .44).

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

That calculator has a caption that reads... "Unlike the Thorniley Relative Stopping Power Calculator, we are unable to accurately quantify what expected penetration would be in game, as muscle density and bone mass varies so much one species to another. However, you do get a very concise picture of the potential of penetration, one bullet compared to another. We trust you will find this tool both useful and insightful."

Look... I never meant to get involved in a 44 MAG vs 500 S&W discussion, but like I keep saying over and over again... THERE IS SO MUCH MORE FORCE BEHIND THE BIGGER FASTER BULLET THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T MAKE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT THERE BEING NO CONSEQUENCE TO THE BIGGER, FASTER BULLET. I never said it would not be a good idea to aim for the nose either. All I am really saying is the 500 S&W is going to do more damage and make a bigger hole in most cases.

The 500 S&W IMO would be more effective as a cartirdge assuming you can handle the weapon accordingly. The calculator does not take into account how fast the bullet moves or how much energy propels the bullet. It only takes into account caliber and weight.

There is some nut out there making 700gr bullets for the 500 S&W, and it is still going 1200 ft/s. Holy mother of God!!:
http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

Another thing to consider when sighting reccomendations about the 44 MAG being the better brown bear stopper: Did the people who reccomend the 44 MAG even have the chance to shoot/ use/ test 500 S&W? I guess my point is that the 500 S&W MAG is relatively new; If these folks new they could get something that was bigger & faster with 2/3 more energy would they have tried it out? I bet they would have.

I have one more thing to add. I have shot deer with a 44 MAG. Pretty devestating. I would not even consider shooting a deer with a 500 S&W unless I felt the need to be horrific.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

That calculator has a caption that reads... "Unlike the Thorniley Relative Stopping Power Calculator, we are unable to accurately quantify what expected penetration would be in game, as muscle density and bone mass varies so much one species to another. However, you do get a very concise picture of the potential of penetration, one bullet compared to another. We trust you will find this tool both useful and insightful."

Look... I never meant to get involved in a 44 MAG vs 500 S&W discussion, but like I keep saying over and over again... THERE IS SO MUCH MORE FORCE BEHIND THE BIGGER FASTER BULLET THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T MAKE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT THERE BEING NO CONSEQUENCE TO THE BIGGER, FASTER BULLET. I never said it would not be a good idea to aim for the nose either. All I am really saying is the 500 S&W is going to do more damage and make a bigger hole in most cases.

The 500 S&W IMO would be more effective as a cartirdge assuming you can handle the weapon accordingly. The calculator does not take into account how fast the bullet moves or how much energy propels the bullet. It only takes into account caliber and weight.

There is some nut out there making 700gr bullets for the 500 S&W, and it is still going 1200 ft/s. Holy mother of God!!:
http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

Another thing to consider when sighting reccomendations about the 44 MAG being the better brown bear stopper: Did the people who reccomend the 44 MAG even have the chance to shoot/ use/ test 500 S&W? I guess my point is that the 500 S&W MAG is relatively new; If these folks new they could get something that was bigger & faster with 2/3 more energy would they have tried it out? I bet they would have.

I have one more thing to add. I have shot deer with a 44 MAG. Pretty devestating. I would not even consider shooting a deer with a 500 S&W unless I felt the need to be horrific.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Wow lookie the tie between 9mm and .45 acp!!!

Of course we all know that the .45 is the real deal if you want the person your shooting at to be dead...LOL!!!

J/K

I can put 8 shots from my 9mm in someones head at 10 yards so the 9mm for me is acceptable as a defensive round. But I carry a .45


:signs1:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

That was my reaction too.
I am surprised......
I thought the 1986 Miami incident settled that :wink:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Come on, everyone knows that the 9mm is the ideal pistol caliber.
All things considered, price, performance, mag capacity, bulk to carry, recoil,
flatter shooting then both .40 and .45, conceal carry.
Used more in the world by law enforcement and military then any other.
Hands down the winner!
http://www.best9mm.com/9mmballistics.html
Now I won't dispute the .45 and the .40 are better stopping rounds, but they fail in other "ideal" criteria. This poll was for the ideal round in a pistol!

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

rhoggman, you make some good points ... :coolbeer:

I love to analyze things objectively, and we're leaving out a lot of guys here with our comparison of two (less than ideal) bullets here, the 44mag and the 500S&W ... so I wanted to campare them ALL on BIG GAME with non-expanding bullets, just to be even ... here goes!

• S&W 500 ss, 4"barrel 3.5lbs retail $1359
• Colt .45 1911 Govt model 2.4lbs
• Ruger Red Hawk ss, .44mag, 4"barrel, 2.9lbs, retail $836
• Ruger P944, 4.2" barrel, .40S&W caliber, 2.1lbs
• Ruger Red Hawk .357mag, 4" barrel, 2.5lbs, retail $660
• Glock 17 9mm, 4.5" barrel, 1.4lbs

Bullet's ballistic weight and speed that I used were ALL brand Buffalo Bore since they seem to be as hot and heavy as any load on the popular market right now. This keeps it fairly even for each caliber's maximum across the board. But Buffalo Bore has no 9mm bullets that are NOT hollow points, and the 147gr bullet is the 'penetrator load' in 9mm, so I had to use Winchester brand, which is not +p loaded, in the lightweight Glock 17. All bullets used were found here: Midway online ammo catalogue

Penetration Calculator (assumes non-expanding and the same speed for comparsons so faster bullets are under-rated, slower ones are over-rated here)
http://beartoothbullets.com/rescourc...enetration.htm

Permanent Wound Channel Diameter Calculator (Estimate of non-expanding flat nosed bullet and considers speed)
http://beartoothbullets.com/rescourc.../php/wound.htm

Handgun Recoil Calculator (The speed of the recoil is the slap you feel, the energy is the total push and rise)
http://beartoothbullets.com/rescourc...&cw=14&w=2.125

Here are the bullets and the theoretical performance with non-expanding bullets:
--------------------------------------------------------------

500 S&W Magnum 440 Grain Lead Flat Nose Gas Check
Muzzle Velocity: 1325 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1715 ft. lbs.
Relative Penetration Index of 25.14 with a 440 grain bullet and a .5" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 1.656" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .5", and a striking velocity of 1325 fps.
Recoil Energy of 38 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 26 fps.

.45ACP 230 grains +p FMJ
Muzzle Velocity: 950 fps, Muzzle Energy: 461 ft. lbs.
Relative Penetration Index of 16.23 with a 230 grain bullet and a .45" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 1.069" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .45", and a striking velocity of 950 fps.
Recoil Energy of 7 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 14 fps.

.44 magnum 340 grains +p Lead Flat Nose Gas Check
Muzzle Velocity: 1423 fps, Muzzle Energy: 1533 ft. lbs.
Relative Penetration Index of 26.39 with a 340 grain bullet and a .429" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 1.528" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .429", and a striking velocity of 1425 fps.
Recoil Energy of 32 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 27 fps.

.40 S&W 180grains +p FMJ
Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps Muzzle Energy: 484 ft. lbs.
Relative Penetration Index of 16.07 with a 180 grain bullet and a .40" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 1.1" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .4", and a striking velocity of 1100 fps.
Recoil Energy of 8 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 15 fps.

.357 Magnum 180 Grain +pLead Flat Nose Gas Check
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps, Muzzle Energy: 783 ft. lbs.
Relative Penetration Index of 20.18 with a 180 grain bullet and a .357" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 1.25" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .357", and a striking velocity of 1400 fps.
Recoil Energy of 10 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 16 fps.

9mm Luger, Winchester 147 Grain Full Metal Jacket
Muzzle Velocity: 990 fps, Muzzle Energy: 320 ft. lbs.
Relative Penetration Index of 16.48 with a 147 grain bullet and a .357" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 0.884" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .357", and a striking velocity of 990 fps.
Recoil Energy of 6 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 16 fps.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Disregarding all other calibers for Grizzly with the possible exception of the .357 ... here are the comparisons for the .44mag Buffalo Bore vs the .500 S&W Buffalo Bore bullets.

The Buffao Bore .44mag load goes a little deeper as compared without extra speed, so it still goes even deeper than indicated due to it's 100fps faster speed compared to the slower .500.

The .500 blows a little bigger hole, 1.52" vs 1.65" or about 0.13" wider in diameter.

I doubt you could tell much difference in the kick, since the .44 is a little lighter it slaps (37fps vs 36fps) about the same and yet the .500 should push a little harder to rise even more. (recoil energy 32 for the .44 vs 38 for the .500)

The .500 Smith costs $500 more if both it and the Red Hawk are in stainless for comparison. The bullets for the .500 are kind of hard to find. The .500 is 3/4" longer and about 0.6 pounds heavier. The .500 holds 5 rounds, the .44mag holds 6 rounds. I feel I'd have the all penetration in the .44 and likely a bit more, with fully 92% as big of a hole in his head or wherever, and I'd get all 6 shots for a half pound less. Both kick pretty hard, on both ends.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e500smith1.jpg
The recoil of a 500 S&W magnum revolver (wiki)

I can understand someone buying a .500 S&W, especially a collector, but if I had a choice of which I'd pick to carry into grizzly country... and the price was the SAME... I'd still select to carry the .44 magnum as loaded here. But I'm sure that many knowledgable Alaskans make a wise decision to buy a .500 because it surely works! It's just my taste and reasoning I can share here.

And considering the extra $500... that would get me started in handloading custom .44 bullets and ALL revolvers are VERY versatile in the many varied potential load variations ... or buy me a lot of ammo, holster, etc. But that's just me and my own taste and opinion really.

And a comment on the .357mag... that round is going very fast, and the penetration calculator compares all bullets at a theoretical SAME SPEED, so that round likely outperforms the projected advantage as shown in penetration alone here, over the considerably slower automatic cartridges. So the penetration numbers alone are off on the .357 vs 9mm and .40 and .45, since all are measured at the same speed and the .357 is way faster... The little .357 surely is quite an impressive performer and it might do the number on a grizzly's head! (but it might not)

I can't tell much difference between a .40 and a .45 on the business end, and the 9mm makes a little smaller hole but it goes fairly deep and there usually is a lot of them! But ALL the automatics are slower and really can't compare to the magnum revolvers because speed is not considered in the penetration calculator (the calculator is more a measure of sectional density, or a ratio of bullet's mass vs the bullet's frontal area, and mass x velocity squared is what gives the bullet momentum and inertia focused on the frontal area) So the 'penetration' assumption is assuming in effect a constant velocity of all rounds here.

And if you use soft or hollow points in any of these guns they should make a proportionally wider hole that is not nearly as deep. A bit harder to compare but it can be estimated on the calculator by adjusting the diameter of the bullet and leaving the weight the same. An example, if the 340 grain Buffalo Bore +p .44mag bullet was a hollow point that opened up to say, .80 caliber, that .44 would get these numbers that are not good for a BIG grizzly:

Relative Penetration Index of 7.59 with a 340 grain bullet and a .8" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 2.85" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .80", and a striking velocity of 1425 fps.

But I'm all but SURE that number of 7.59 penetration should go right through an average man or deer or goat broadside... so it seems like it's unit of measure is more than 7.59 penetration in inches of flesh to my estimation. I'd figure a ratio of 1 unit on the index = about 2" of deer, lower for the automatics because they are a good bit slower. I would also estimate either the 340gr .44mag, or the 440gr 500mag hard-cast slugs would go through a 175lb deer long ways, front-to-back and beyond ... it's my 60/40 hunch. And flat nose bullets are not nearly so likely to yaw like a pointed FMJ spitzer or deflect like a mushroomed SP.

Here is a 230gr .45 acp HP that expands to .80 caliber also, figured in the calculators just for a relative comparison:

Relative Penetration Index of 5.13 with a 230 grain HP bullet and a .8" meplat diameter.
Wound channel diameter of 1.9" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .8", and a striking velocity of 950 fps.

Even the 'permanent wound channel' is only useful as a relative comparison between calibers. The medium could be ballistic gelatin and it may vary, and the bullet is slowing down so the hole would make a cone tapering down to the bullet as it goes deeper and slows.

And the lightweight Glock 17 9mm comes back faster (gun velocity in fps) than the heavier more powerful .45acp govt model because e=mv squared and less pistol mass just means it comes back with more speed at your firing hand. The heavy steel frames absorb a lot of felt recoil.

This may bore some of you and intrigue others... This is how I hope to see investment options, dispassionately and without prejudice, rational analysis to calculate the best desired blended effect. But I realize it's only a projection, a model useful for relative cartridge and load comparison and will vary in the real world.

Thanks for letting me explain about the .44mag vs 500S&Wmag ... and all you other guys, I figured your best 'bear' cartridges too, just for the heck of it! It's all fun! :coolbeer:

PS: And if I could vote again (I voted other) I'd pick the .357 magnum because it can do it all so well, a very DIVERSIFIED investment, .38spcl caliber option, or else a long case of powder and lead making big holes deep, shotshells for rats or game, reliable revolvers are fast firing, speed-loaders, airweight to heavy target frame, lever/pump rifle options, easy seat-on-the-rim case crimped reloads, the .357's always a good payback, never a problem. I guess that's ideal. http://goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/ok.gif ... (except for a charging grizzly)

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Just to be fair here I think you need to plug in some different ballistics into your calculator. Buffalo Bore must being doing a huge disservice to the 500 S&W.

Hornady sells some stuff that is way better, and I understand that hornady stuff is not really pushing the limit.

500 S&W 300 gr SST w/FTT

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)

Muzzle: 2075/2868 50 yds: 1885/2366 100 yds: 1706/1939

According to your calculator with muzzle energy entered:
Wound channel diameter of 2.594" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .50", and a striking velocity of 2075 fps.

That is quite significant compared with the "light load" you entered. This data would back up my claim of a bigger hole, and a little room for error.

I found all of you info very useful, please do not think I am arguing.

I will have to admit the recoil is much more significant when shooting the 500 S&W, which is why I said before you need to make sure you can handle the weapon. I general (this is an assumption) I would tend to think if you enjoy shooting your 44 MAG, you would not really have any problems with the 500 S&W. I would definately concede to the point that this could be a problem for some people. I am not a real big guy, and I can handle the 500 S&W with not real problems. I will admit I would not volunteer to shoot anymore than about 20 rounds for fear of nose bleads and percussion anxiety (not a real condition but on that exists after shooting the 500 S&W).

I did hear that Ruger was coming out with the Alaskan chambered in 500 S&W, and I would definately be hauling it around for bear protection if need be. I live in Southern Virginia, and hunt all over the state. Black bear are a concern in the woods, and I have actually seen one while deer hunting. I'm pretty comfortable with a .357, .40, or .44. With brown bear I would want nothing less than a .44 MAG, and even then having only six rounds may cause me to wet my pants.

Seeing what a 500 S&W did to a large feral hog may keep me from pissing my pants, but only I can keep myself from getting killed. After all someone has to aim & pull the trigger.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

That pic reminds of of Pulp Fiction when the guy with the hand cannon misses Jules & Vern
http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/pulpfiction.jpg

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I chose other: .380 acp. Strictly personal preference. I've heard all the arguments. They all shut up when I send 14 rounds into a 3 inch group from 20 yards in about 10 seconds. I simply cannot do that with a bigger caliber. I can still shoot good just not scary good, reliably, every time. If I want to shoot even better I have to go down to .32 or .22. Once I get past a 45 acp it's really just a matter of getting the first round on target because all the others will just be in the general direction of the 1st. I really have to pace myself to get good groups with .357, 9mm and .45 but I can achieve it.
For little dudes like myself the smaller caliber pays off with accuracy, rate of fire and capacity.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Ever try a soft load 45 ? Like 200 gr bullet with 4 gr bullseye type target load? Very soft very accurate for 45 IMO

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

No, I have not tried soft-loaded large calibers. I think the big, ugly question is whether or not you would recommend that I stake my life on putting down an attacker with these soft-loaded rounds.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Maybe a bit of a misnomer there
The load is soft in recoil & great for one handed bullseye or bowling pins.
But a 200gr hunk-O-lead doing 700+ fps will still kill real good I think :wink:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I picked up a FN Herstal 5.7 X 28 this weekend
took it out today had a blast.
its up their as one of my better pistols:ok:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I voted "other" for my ideal caliber for a pistol, .41 magnum. This is strickly from a CCW point of view, I know nothing of hunting or protecting myself from bears...I persoally don't own a .41 magnum yet, I'm probably begoing to get rid of a few plastic pistols to get one. I have five different guns I carry(no not all at once) 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, .357 magnum and .380; the .45 ACP would be my most ideal of the calibers I own. The main caliber I usually carry is a .357 magnum, about 80% of the time. I would carry my 1911 more often, but I don't want to trust my life in a high stress situation with an auto loader.

From the little I know about Col. Jeff Cooper, he once said he preferred to carry a revolver(but didn't) to a auto loader, but he didn't like the choices of calibers with wheel guns. He considered the .357 magnum too hot of a load and was worried about over penetration, the .44 magnum was too hard for quick follow up shots. He always envisioned something that was a halfway between the two. I'm not sure if Col. Jeff Cooper had anything to do with the creation of the .41 magnum, but I know it was a caliber that was inspired by him.

GN

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Does anyone have any experience with a desert eagle 50 AE in 44 mag? What are the pros and cons and how is the recoil related to say a redhawk 44 mag?

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

10mm is the most powerful pistol round that is practical, the Glock 20 is the best platform for it.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Has anyone fird the 44 mag desert eagle? If so what are your reactions.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I used to have one, sold it before the fad ended.It was accurate enough but jammed constantly even with IDF ammo.Rimmed cases in an auto pistol does not work well, even when you load the magazines carefully.
Looked impressive though.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Availability of ammo and spare parts should factor in.

Personally, I prefer .45, but I am standardizing with .40 because that is where most of the LEOs are heading, and therefore ammo, mags and parts will be readily available for a long time.

http://www.hchq.biz/mia_photos/swmp40.jpg
S&W M&P .40

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Hasn't this model been known to come dangerously close to splitting cases?

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Then again given its history I wonder if anything will ever have more ammo.mags & parts than a 1911 45?

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Yeah with reloads and the stock barrel. Just replace the barrel with one that has better chamber support.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I've got a couple Colt delta elite 10mm's, great guns.10mm cranks some serious fps and damages the shit out of bowling pins! :coolbeer:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I prefer the .45.

My wife and daughter both prefer the 9MM.

Vanilla, chocolate and strawberry.

CC

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I choose 'OTHER'. I own the one on the bottom.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1231604468

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1231604468

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Actually, wallew, I didn't even vote because I don't believe there is any one caliber or pistol that could be considered ideal. You just can't do it all with one. For around the farm, it's had to beat a .22, for hunting deer a .44 mag is about right, for self defense/home defense a .38 or 9mm will be enough for all but a whole gang..... For that bring along your's, they look like they'd be up to the task.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Being I'm relatively noob to this stuffage, what is that beast in the picture ?

TIA

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Locally 9mm is what they have.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

My current choice is XD-40SW. There is no ideal caliber and at the same time there is more than one. Many mentioned here are very good, but none is perfect.I like my gun and like the caliber.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

reckon the bullet dont git em da flames will!

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

.45 is great for soft targets - like MZB's. I went with the .40 because it is almost as good as the .45 but has better barrier penetration.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Whatever will get me to my rifle. No kidding.
Take care,
Mod1

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Mutant Zombie Bikers? Seriously asking cuz I don't know...

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I voted 9mm because I have a XDM in 9mm. If I can't get a perp with the first shot I have 19 more tries.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

SHTF, it's ALL gonna be hard to find.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

SHTF and the ones you find will be headed towards you at mach+.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

The ideal caliber is the one that is loaded in your hand when you need it most.
This is a long thread and my response may be redundant but no less pertinent.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Gov't agencies have had to ask a similar question.
Military carries 9 mm
Treasury Agents 10 mm
FBI?
DEA?
CHP?
Be well.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I have been in law enforcement and what it boiled down to was this;
it depends on who is pointing in the right direction first.
It depends on where you are- I am speaking about arms to arms.
If I was keeping a concelead fire arm carrying on a daily basis I would prefer a fire arm that comes out smoothly from the ITW and I would practice with this on a daily basis.
What it boils down to is in a situation you have no time to aim techincally you have time to point and shoot. 1.e. if your insticts are up to it. In tis case I would carry a 9mm full time. Preferable with a shorter barrel. I would pick a fire arm that has been tried and tested in water, mud, dust and come through on reliability. The last thing I need is a jam. I also do not want to run out of ammo so a spare megazine would be there for backup.

In a house defence situation I would like to have a pump action shot gun. My agenda is to get either the invader out or leave him in a situation where he can do no damage. so a 12 gauge would do fine. Preferably with a larger holding capacity. Smaller barrel length to allow me to move around the house safely. Without the barrel hindering me.

These would suffice as most encounters are in distances of less than 7 meters. In such scenarios you can safely assume you hav eno time to look at technicals simply leave the guy momentarily out of action and get out of the situation. You are in defence mode not in offence mode.

If you are in offence mode that is different.
SAGI

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Lol! I don't know what MZB is either, but 'Mutant Zombie Bikers' nearly made me spray coffee all over my keyboard!

http://www.wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-..._poster_01.jpghttp://pimpsofgore.com/365/108.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/...b552b153ba.jpg

Back on topic, 9mm is my choice, for all the reasons that have been hashed over in the many, many .45 ~vs~ 9mm debates that have been raging on forever. No need to beat a dead horse.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

That's a Bullseye!

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Last I checked homosapien bellys are pretty soft...

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

This.



I can shoot a pube off a gnats ballsack at 40yds with my XDm...at least it feels like it!:bear_thumb:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

That's just because it's a Springfield...can't say enought good stuff about their guns...especially the XD line. I have a fullsize XD 45 and I absolutely LOVE it. I'll take my 13 rounds of 45 over 19 9mm anyday. You're going down after a couple rounds of 45.....maybe not so much 9 mm. Lot of it depends on circumstances, shot placement, ammo and luck.

Realistically, the best caliber gun is one that you are comfortable with, have practiced with and have at hand when needed.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

if you could only have one gun it would have to be the .357 magnum..its got massive stopping power plus range over all the autos .45 9mm 10mm good close but the .357 is good for medium range as well..you can hunt with it and it chambers .38 as well which gives you more ammo options.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Just another home made AK47 pistol, with a VERY short barrel (5" ish).

Mine (the one on the bottom) can be shot using one hand. I can put twenty in the ten ring at ten feet with one hand. With the AMD65 muzzle brake there is virtually NO muzzle rise and it literally drops back on target as you are getting ready to pull the trigger again.

I have practiced this over and over and over again. Works great. Lays next to my bed loaded with a 20 round mag and two spares laying next to it. I've actually walked my property at night on several occasions with this pistol and felt confident that I was well prepared for ANY situation that might arise.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I wanna see your holster for that thing Wallew:biggrin:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

From many old timers and those who target shoot alot, everyone says that the S&W .357 Magnum Revolver is the Most reliable, accurate and has the power punch to take down the perp, period.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Doesn't actually INCLUDE the 500 S&W, just the 50 AE... still

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1238011266

My BIL bought a 500 S&W in 4" USED for $700. Apparently the previous owner shot ONE ROUND through it and took it back and traded it for something else. A rifle I believe.

So he calls me and I got him the reloading dies for less than $50 (new) plus 100 brass cases for $35 per 50. Plus eventually I even bought him (as a gift) of 25 rounds loaded for $40. These puppies are MASSIVE. And I MEAN MASSIVE.

He also purchased a .44 mag for my sister (used - Taurus I think) for like $450. They've not shot either of them. Haven't had the time so far.

But I WILL tell you one thing, in the heat of the moment you WILL NOT notice the recoil being a problem. You might not hit your intended target BECAUSE of the felt recoil, but it won't be an issue IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT.

Afterwards, ya you betcha your wrist WILL feel it. I've shot the .454 Casuall. I shot two rounds out of it, unloaded it and handed it back to the guy, thanking him for the experience. I swore to myself that I'd rather shoot my AK47 pistol than something that massive of felt recoil...

the ammo listed is from left to right -

9 x 9mm
7.62 x 25mm Tok
.357 sig
10 mm
45 S&W
45 GAP
50 AE

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I'm going to say .380 ACP because they are so light that you can carry them all the time. I just picked up a Ruger LCP, it is the sweetest pocket gun I have ever packed, and I have several.

http://www.gunshowreview.com/SHOT200...-2-08-0207.jpg

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Welcome to my camp, SAUM. It's lonely here but the soup is good.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I figure if you start putting enough holes in a perp... Any kind of holes, and he doesn't fall then you have bigger issues than the guy just being a perp. I've packed a S&W 642 a Glock 27 and derringers. Out of the mix I've fallen in love with the little LCP. I was looking for the Kel-Tec .380 when I bought the LCP. Both of the Little 380's are a hot seller right now and really hard to find.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html
This poll is invalid since it excludes the most versatile pistol caliber ever devised. The 10mm, Jeff Coopers baby is the King! Thank you Jeff!:coolbeer:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

12 gauge....

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Why not just have a carton of hand grenades by your bed?

Someone shows up... just lob a few in their direction, and go back to bed.

No need to aim, no need to reload, no need to double-tap or triple-tap.... and no flashlights or lasersights!

Your wife can clean up the mess in the morning! :565:

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/v.../grenade-1.jpg

P.S. Oh! And be sure to keep a few in the glovebox of your car/truck! And one in each of your pants pockets... just in case.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

The one you shoot the best. If you can't shoot it well, bullet size means absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Great minds think alike.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

.40
Most stopping power. Yes, more stopping power than a .45.

Also, it is most economical if you look at it as a "bang for your buck" basis as opposed to a per bullet basis.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

While I voted for .45 ACP, I'm thinking about buying my daughter and her fiance' a handgun for Xmas. My thoughts are what to get, for the best "bang for the buck", literally! IMO, that would be a .357 mag revolver. Both of them have some handgunning experience and my daughter regularly shoots my .357 loaded with .38 spl. She prefers that over all my semiauto pistols (.45 ACP to .22LR).

I don't know about "ideal caliber", but for the most versatile, I change my vote to .357 mag.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Okay, I agree.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I learned to shoot from a man who hated guns. He had one gun, for home defense. He practiced with it frequently enough to stay good with it, and hated every minute of it. He had one simple thought on guns: Murphy's law. He insisted that whatever gun he had, had to deal with Murphy. Therefore all automatics were out. The gun had to be able to be shot with his off hand. Had to be accurate enough to hit over 50% of the time while moving. He settled on the lowly Saturday Night .38 special.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I see threads like this all the time esp on gun oriented boards. I like the first response....

"The best pistol caliber is the one you have in your hand and are proficient with. If 9mm is what you have, get good with it and buy good defensive ammo for it."

I also agree with some posts about availability, try to stay with a round that'll be easy to find (9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP). A 454 Casull revolver w/o ammo is nothing but a club.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Its a little tricky for concealed carry and its magazine capacity is a tad low but if you've need to penetrate engine blocks you might consider this puppy. Oh yeah, and it pulls a bit to the left.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...mghandgun2.jpg

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

the one you can fine ammo for

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

The ideal caliber is going to differ from person to person. I may like a .45, however my gf may shoot better w/ a 9mm. There is no one "best caliber" for all...

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

.40 S&W IMHO and...ammo is still available here in NH! My G/F has no problem firing my Glock 22 and after 3,000 plus rounds notta a problem or a jam!

Firenhole

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I've always been partial to the .40.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

sure love my .223 AR pistol

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Attachment 73343:15_1_70v:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Ideal pistol caliber? It starts with "9", and ends with "mm".

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Holy thread resurrection


seconded

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Currently, my ideal caliber is one that begins with a "7"...

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I've noticed that people who dislike cars and who hate driving are often the most intelligent and informed car-buyers, while avid car enthusiasts who enjoy driving often make poor choices and give bad advice to prospective car-buyers.

Same true of guns?

The term "Saturday night special" suggests a low-quality firearm, but I believe that when the chips are down, the majority of semi-automatic handgun owners would be better served with a (high quality) revolver.

(Whoa there fella, I said "the majority," not "all." Of course I didn't mean you. You are a professional. A highly trained, will-drilled expert.):biggrin:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

FBI statistics show the most effective killers of LE officers, carried by punks, are inexpensive, small-caliber pistols fired from concealment...22lr, 25 acp, 32 acp. The cops are trained to show restraint, while the perp is not. He has the element of surprise and is often able to get off several shots before the cop can draw his weapon...

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I agree. A .357 is probably the most versitile handgun. It's a good training gun as well. I just moved my daughter up from shooting a Ruger 22/45 to shooting a .357 (S&W Highway Patrolman) with the wimpiest .38 wadcutters I could find. She's loving it and I'm working her up to some more powerful loads.
Self defense, hunting, easy training, reliability and 2 kinds of ammo...a .357 is hard to beat IF you can only own one gun.
Didn't Taurus make an 8 shot too for a while?

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

30-06 or 7.62 x 63mm

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

During The Vietnam War, some troops sent home for .357 mags (the military issue .45s weren't cutting it). S&W makes a few 7-shots: the 619 and 620.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I can put down a small jug of water at 50 yds surprisingly consistently with my XD9...

AFAIAC, that makes it the ideal handgun for me. If I need more accuracy, I have other options.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

There is no substitute for Shot-Placement...

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Golden rule of small arms:

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

I prefer my .68 muzzle loading pirate pistol. You should see what it does to a stack of phone books.

Re: What is the ideal Calibre for a pistol ?
 

Quoted for the saying about bloody heads on poles at the bottom of the post. Reminds me of the battle between the Ottawa and Muskegean Indians on the P.M. River in the 1600s here in Michigan. The invadeing Ottawas after killing all the Muskegeans put their heads on poles and lined the river banks. Visit the monument to this a mile south of Custer Michigan.

Put up some 10" thick 3' diameter white pine stump slabs as back stops at our sight in range at deer camp. Surprised to see that 30-06 soft point loads were going through 10" of solid gnarly pine at 50 yards.